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 Accomplishing Fun

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STBrian



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PostSubject: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:49 pm

So, I figured this was going to be a problem.

In the old days, we just had temporary renown roll over to perm at fifteen. After ten you could have a Rite of Accomplishment, so the Rite basically served to maximize returns on temp renown.

Now, going by the book (the Addendum is silent on this issue), we are requiring Rites of Accomplishment for all permanent renown gains.

I have to say, looking at this outside, this is just getting stupid. Requiring dozens of Rites per month is getting out of hand. Players are generally putting the work in now, but I know the signs.. This is going to lead to burnout pretty quick.

I'm inclined to say Galliards can bulk list their Rites preformed in their reports. With the limitations on pack and such remaining in place of course.

Thoughts? Other ideas? Do I have this all wrong?
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Adam King



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:56 pm

I have an idea for streamlining the process at session, but I dunno about the boards. The issue isn't doing them, it's easy to write up a basic listing of accomplishments and post it on the boards. The issue is contesting them, since the write-up makes contesting the Rite basically a purely mechanical thing. I.E. The difficulty of the Rite increases, and the applicant has to test for Frenzy.

EDITED TO ADD: Re: Bulk Lists. For many, this makes sense. There are some Rites of Accomplishment that are particularly thematic and good for story, and those should be done at session, but most RoAs are pretty generic and could easily be summarized. If we bulk-listed Rites of Accomplishment (which I'm definitely not against) how would we handle challenges?
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Ron Adams



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Tribe: GlassWalkers

PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:06 pm

I don't think we can do away with acting out / writing up the Rites of accomplishment if we want to leave the window of challenges open. It is a lot of work and some characters are falling through the cracks, especially those who aren't in a pack with a Galliard that can wheel and deal with the other Galliards for them.

That said i don't hate it as a political mechanic. We have a supply and demand problem that will only intensify as we start going up in rank, eg there is only one rank 3 PC Galliard that other rank 3 PCs can go to for Galliard things and no one for him to go to. It's also an OOC supply and demand problem cause it takes ooc time and effort to write up or act out the rite.

I would like a better idea of what has to be in a rite of accomplishment for it to work or fail. Telling stories is glorious, but Ron didn't explicitly mention that King told stories, he only retold a story with King in it. I think that Jason is right, that there isn't anything specifically glorious in that story. Does that mean the rite failed? What are the consequences of the rite failing? Can someone just do it again with a different story?
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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:09 pm

Good questions.
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Yuri



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:13 pm

Answers:

Maybe.

Rite of accomplishment fail equals loss of all temporary renown in that category.

No.

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Ron Adams



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:14 pm

I actually think this will get easier once the Galliards get the list of everyone's temp renown. We'll know who has what and be able to plan ahead accordingly. The other players/ characters won't need to pester us as much just to let us know they need such and such a rite.
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Adam King



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:22 pm

It doesn't necessarily mean the Rite failed, for two reasons.

1. The Rite only fails if a challenge to it's content makes me Frenzy. I don't think any of the statements would normally be Frenzy stimuli, but it is also possible that the Rite itself makes me test for Frenzy any time anyone argues with it at all. It's not very clear on how the heckling affects the Rite. I may have to throw some Frenzy chops.

2. Having a story entered into the Silver Record and then retold gets you glory. So, while the story may not have depicted anything specifically worthy of Glory renown, it was, in and of itself, an example of Adam's Glory.


Also, regarding forum RoAs, I have an idea:

We continue doing them as we have been, but we make a rule that no one does what I did. The applicant can't respond to the thread until after the next session. Then, at the next session, for each challenge offered the applicant throws a Frenzy chop. If he / she wins them all, they can post in the thread, having resisted Frenzy and completed the Rite. If they lose one, we assume they Frenzied and the other garou, including the Guardian pack, held them down until they stopped Frenzying and went about their business.

At that point, the applicant would suffer the detriments of having failed the Rite.
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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:40 pm

Oooooooooookay.   Well written guys at White Wolf.  Good work on copy writing.  Okay, i'm going to throw some chops over on the other thread for the Frenzies (4 or 6 traits?  Give me a break, the rite will succeed 90+% of the time either way). 160 is clearly a typo, 179 points directly at the way we've been doing it.

Laws of the Wild - Revised - p160  [Emphasis mine]

Quote :
Rite of Accomplishment
This rite takes place when a Garou is eligible to challenge for a new rank.  It honors her deeds and trials getting to this point.  An elder calls the honored Garou forward and lists all the subjects accomplishments the contribute to her achievement.  Anyone else who wishes to add something may then do so.  The elder concludes the rite by proclaiming the subject's worthiness.

The difficulty is only 4 traints unless someone wants to dispute the point, in which case it rites to six.  

(Followed by stuff about challenging the rite, and another useless paragraph.)

Laws of the Wild, page 179
Quote :

"Once a character has 10 or more points of temp renown in a category, she can attempt to convert the accumulation into a Perm renown trait...
The usual method to gain permanent renown is to persuade a Garou outside one's own pack and of equal or higher Rank to perform the Rite of Accomplishment.  If no available Garou who meets the criteria chooses to help, the seeker of Renown can challenge an elder (lower case) once she has enough Temp Renown...

THANKS OBAMA.


Last edited by STBrian on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yuri



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:45 pm

The cut off paragraph has actual rules in it that matter. The 4 difficulty is unchallenged. The 6 is if challenged plus a normal frenzy chop, either of which a failure causes the rite to fail.

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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:47 pm

No no, I dig that, my fingers got tired of typing. But nobody round here has been doing rites with 5 social traits, trust me. As for the Frenzy stuff, I threw for them on the thread proper.
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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:49 pm

Edit to add:

We haven't been making folks test for the 'normal' Rites on the boards so far (given the 90+% success rate, it doesn't make sense to be too much of a stickler). If players want us to push that, we can.
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Quills

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:11 pm

It doesn't matter to me how it's done, since I have to go out-of-sept for my RoAs.
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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:14 pm

You can always have npcs perform if yo like? Though it's a good excuse to see the neighbors.
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Quills

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Poor choice of words.  Artie doesn't like any of the NPCs here, so she chooses not to have her RoAs performed at home.

And it *is* a good excuse to make ties and hobnob with the other Werewolf players.
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STBrian



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:46 pm

Now that makes sense. Just make sure you tell us when it happens, obv. Smile
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Charging bear

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:49 pm

If memory serves me right anyone can do the rite not just gallairds. More folks that know it the better and easyer it becomes.
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Yuri



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:52 pm

Anyone can do almost any rite. Some rites are more appropriate for some auspices than others. You are stepping into an ic contentious area right now, so i don't want to give a firm opinion. Currently only galliards are doing them locally unless i have missed some

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Adam King



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:54 pm

^

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STBen



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:35 pm

Quills wrote:
Poor choice of words.  Artie doesn't like any of the NPCs here, so she chooses not to have her RoAs performed at home.


Aww, how can she not like Walker? He's cuddly and sweet.


Quote :

And it *is* a good excuse to make ties and hobnob with the other Werewolf players.



...which is, after all, what the game is about, in the end. The question is: at what point do Rites stop being a vehicle for facilitating RP and become an obstacle to it?
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Adam King



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:48 pm

STBen wrote:
The question is: at what point do Rites stop being a vehicle for facilitating RP and become an obstacle to it?

This. So much this.

I have a cool idea for how multiple Rites of Accomplishment can be provided at once in a single scene at session.

Picture this:

All the Garou present stand in two lines, creating a Gauntlet. The ritemaster (Galliard or non, whoever is performing the Rite) stands at one end of the gauntlet, and the applicant at the other. The ritemaster tells a story about the applicant, or at least a few words regarding their renown. The applicant then walks between the two lines of Garou.

Any Garou in the Gauntlet can put out an arm and bar the applicant's path. When they do, they have the option of saying either something positive to augment the Rite, or something negative to challenge the Rite. If it's something negative, the applicant tests for Frenzy, and if they win they can respond non-violently. No matter what the response is, the challenger's turn is over, and must rejoin the line. The applicant disproved their challenge by keeping their cool.

In this way, a list of MANY Garou could all put their names in to the same ritemaster at the same time, and each walk the gauntlet while it's gathered. It would make RoAs far more RP-oriented, since everyone in the scene has a chance to say something about the applicant, and the ritemaster won't need to know much about each applicant.

It's sort of collaborative storytelling.

Thoughts?
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Yuri



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:52 pm

I mostly like it, feels tribal.

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Adam King



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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:12 pm

It would also allow us Galliards, now that we have the full list of Renown gains each month, to actually CALL people out in public for Rites of Accomplishment. I think the RP will be a lot better when the applicant didn't apply at all, but is being told by his fellows that it is time to brag about his accomplishments to the Spirits.

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Dietrich Von Stauffel

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 am

So anything that reminds the Get of Walking the Gauntlet cause running it is for Sissy has our My full support. Based on seing how it went in game at the Moot I also have to give it two thumbs up. It led to some very interesting Role Playing like walking up to the part with the Two Ragabash who have been doing their jobs and questioning everything and just starring at them meneacingly one at a time and having Cory just step back saying I got nothing....

Lets just say It works the Rituals get tested because everyone on the line can question it or support it.

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Quills

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:14 am

Yeah... stare menacingly at the Ragabash.  That's not going to end up with extra scandal sprinkles on your sundae.
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Dietrich Von Stauffel

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PostSubject: Re: Accomplishing Fun   Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:05 am

Oh it might It really really might if I had done something scandalus but starring menacingly at ragabsh is something Philodox do all the time its the normal order of the Universe.

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