New Addendum Discussion

Some Important Changes Below especially if you have a mit full of Talens I highlighted them in RED
 
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FETISH GUIDELINES
 
The maximum number of Fetishes (not including Talens) a character can own is equal to their permanent Gnosis Rating.

The maximum number of Fetishes (not including Talens) a character can have active at one time is one half of their permanent Gnosis rounded down (minimum 1).

The maximum number of Talens a character can have is equal to their permanent Gnosis Rating plus their Rank.
 
Attributes of the same category, health levels, damage, and same Abilities do not stack with multiple active Fetishes (including Talens). You take the best of these bonuses from each of the active Fetishes and/or Talens.
 
Characters cannot enter play with more Fetishes (not including Talens) than their starting Rank.
 
The Fetishes and Talens chosen at entering play may only come from the Laws of the Wild, Revised or the appropriate Revised Tribebook or  Changing Breed section of the appropriate Changing Breed Book.
 
When activating Fetishes, if the challenge is a tie and both the Garou and the Fetish are equal in Gnosis Traits, the Garou wins the challenge.

This is actually one of the changes that makes me happiest.  Up until now, there's really been no good reason for a player NOT to make hundreds of talens and stockpile them, beyond "That's lame"--which stops some and not others, let's be honest.

Now, you have to be selective in what talens you craft.  If you want to run around with a satchel full of Breath of Gaia, go for it--but you won't also have a quiver full of talen arrows for your bow, a  Death Dust for investigations, and a couple of Nightshades for when you need to be stealthy.

Canon-wise, it also makes a certain amount of sense. The source material warns that those who just go around making talens and fetishes willy-nilly are going to piss off the spirits; it's just that there are no firm guidelines for how or when that happens. These limits, we may take it, are what the spirits are willing to tolerate.

Yup you can still make an Armory and store a few extra but it also makes sense to spread a few talens out to each member of a pack. Of Course Given that I can carry 8 Talens isnt a very limiting factor for me considering I own Exactly One Talen.

Ok Lets talk Spirit Affinity and Spirit Noteriety.... I think it just became much much more important to keep track of it because everyone who doesnt have spirit speach really needs to know what spirits they owe favors to and what spirits they have made friends with. So what have you done on the list below what spirits might be friendly towards you and who have you pissed off....

================= Below is taken from the new Addendum on Spirit Noteriety =============
There are several ways in which Spirit Affinity and Notoriety can be earned in game. Some ways you can do so are as follows:

•Teaching a Gift to another Garou directly. (Notoriety)

•Learning a Gift to another Garou instead of finding a spirit to teach you. (Notoriety)

•Vouching for someone to learn a Tribal Gift outside of their Tribe. (Notoriety)

•Vouching for someone to learn a gift outside their Breed or Auspice. (Notoriety among the Universal Broods)

•Destroying a Talen, Fetish, Klaive inhabited by a member of the targeted Brood without releasing the spirit. (Notoriety)

•Freeing an abused or mistreated spirit from a Talen, Fetish, Klaive. (Affinity)

•Failure to grant chiminage after promising to do so. (Notoriety)

•Granting more chiminage than the initial agreement called for. (Affinity)

•Bad-mouthing, talking smack, insulting or being dismissive of a spirit or Tribe. (Notoriety)

•Making amends for a past indiscretion against a Brood. (Affinity)

•Making amends for past indiscretions by your ancestors against a Brood. (Affinity)

•Performing successful spirit quests. (Affinity)

•Assisting in the righting of wrongs against a spirit brood by a packmate or complete stranger. (Affinity)

•Being a pack-mate in a pack that disgraces or dishonors a spirit brood. (Notoriety)

•Failing to perform an Act of Contrition against a Garou. (Notoriety by the offended Garou’s brood)

•Performing deeds for a spirit brood outside of your Tribal Brood, putting yourself at great risk, expecting nothing in return. (Affinity)

•Breaking a pledge, promise, or your word to a spirit brood. (Notoriety)

•Killing a member of a Spirit Brood for any reason. (Notoriety)

•Accepting, unconditionally, the punishment, quest, or price of a spirit brood for killing a member of it’s brood and completing what happens next. (Affinity)

•Binding spirits into inappropriate items. (Notoriety)

•Binding spirits unwillingly. (Notoriety)

•Binding spirits into servitude without chiminage. (Notoriety)

•Altering a spirits nature or brood. (Notoriety)

•Allowing a spirit to become tainted or corrupted as a result of doing a favor for you. (Notoriety)

•Needlessly awakening spirits from slumber. (Notoriety)

•Using the gift Command Spirit to avoid paying chiminage. (Notoriety)

•Forcing a spirit to converse without spirit speech. (Notoriety)

•Ignoring a pack totem ban. (Notoriety)

•Opening a moonbridge into a bawn without permission of the caern spirit. Includes bridge walker, and totem bridges. (Notoriety)

•Hunting Englings for sport or out of malice. (Notoriety)

•Failure to perform proper rites for prey spirits. (Notoriety)

•Failing to honor the spirits of your ancestors. (Notoriety)

•Ignoring prophetic warnings. (Notoriety)

•Cheating in a contest of riddles or game craft. (Notoriety)

•Summoning an incarna avatar or above without a good damn reason. (Notoriety)

•Improving/expanding the influence of the spirit‘s material-world counterparts (i.e. expanding the borders of a protected forest, successfully promoting awareness of a species importance to the environment, etc) (Affinity)

•Protecting the spirit‘s material counterpart (preventing a major catastrophe, helping keep a species or it’s environment in good health, etc) (Affinity)

•Creating works of art to honor the spirit/brood, especially if presented to the general public (Affinity)

•Retrieving a Talen that has been taken by minions of the Wyrm (Affinity)

•Retrieving a Fetish that has been taken by minions of the Wyrm (Affinity)

•Publicly adopting and upholding a Ban (Affinity)

•Freeing a Spirit that has been trapped in the Pattern Web/Calcified (Affinity)

Keep a few points in mind on this, folks:

1. Affinity now matters quite a bit. If you're not a Theurge, and you want to make fetishes, and you don't want to piss off the spirits by FORCING them into fetishes, you need Affinity 3 with that particular brood.

2. Affinity, like Renown, is something you're going to have to actively report. We can't be everywhere, and we can't see everything. If you did something worthy of affinity, include it in your monthly report.

3. Notoriety, on the other hand, may well accumulate without reports.

4. Notoriety hurts. A LOT. Rack up any significant amount, and Wisdom and Honor awards are going to drop sharply.

I wish my spreadsheet fu was stronger, a Brood / Character chart would be pretty handy at game for on the fly notations. Maybe I'll try throwing something together tonight.

I wish that there was some theme between what the various broods did. From what I can tell, when they were writing up the gifts, talons and fetishes, they just added whatever sounded cool as the spirit responsible for / needed for gaining it. So you just have random shit that suddenly matters because I need to plan for months in advance if I want to be able to make eg talens using a robin spirit. Do they even have a listing anywhere of what spirits belong to which brood?

Hrm. Well, technically, the addendum doesn't say anything about talens or the Rite of Binding--it just stipulates that Affinity 3 is needed for Fetishes and the Rite of the Fetish.

Personally, I think that makes sense; being bound in a talen is a much less substantial commitment for a spirit.

Chances are, you'd want to avoid actually having NOTORIETY with the brood, but I see no reason why outright affinity would be needed to negotiate talens.

Let me Know My Spread Sheet Foo is adequate I can make them just dont ask me to imbed programs in them if you want something with check boxes that you can use we can work on it and I can send it to you.

Initiative. It stated that you add your base traits to your form traits, but what are base traits? It lists traits gained from powers (except spirit of the frey), maneuvers, specialties, merits, and weapons as not applying, but does not mention tribal advantages, or totems. Earlier in the permanent trait section it says that

Quote :

Traits granted by Tribal Advantages may exceed caps for Attributes, Abilities, Rage, Gnosis and Willpower. Traits granted by Totems may exceed caps for Attributes, Abilities, and Backgrounds. These Traits may be bid and lost as normal and count toward your totals for the comparison of ties and overbids. Rage, Gnosis, and Willpower Tempers granted by Totems are for expenditure only, and do not count for comparison of ties and overbids in challenges unless specifically stated.

I would think that Totem and tribal traits count, but it's ambiguous. If they don't count we're all always bidding the same based on rank for a given challenge type, which is boring and unhelpful.

Under Weapons and Armor there is a misprint stating that 'Homid and Lupus Garou do not suffer damage from silver while in their breed forms.' A literal interpretation would have the Garou throwing their lupus and Homid members at incoming silver attack, since they won't suffer any damage. It should say 'Homid and Lupus Garou do not suffer from the Garou vulnerability to silver while in their breed forms.'